dumbell deadlift vs squat

There was some discussion on here recently about a dumbell deadlift feeling more like a squat. I have some curiosity about this. It seems to be agreed (now everyone disagree here to prove me wrong) that the squat is a better excercise than the standard deadlift because it uses more major muscle groups, however the deadlift is nevertheless preferred because it uses almost as many muscle groups, doesn't require a rack or a spotter and can be easily learned. Personally I am a deadlifter and don't squat. I think the reason the dumbell deadlift was compared to the squat was due to the fact that heavy dumbells will hang to the sides and come from lower off the floor. Since the dumbells won't be dragged up the shins and held in front of the body like in a standard deadlift, the body stands more erect and in more of a squatlike position. I wonder, however, if it follows therefore that the dumbell deadlift uses more major muscle groups than the deadlift, as the squat is said to. It seems to me perhaps that in terms of muscles used, the dumbell deadlift would be superior to the standard deadlift. Can anyone speculate on how it compares to a squat?

Another consideration is that in a standard deadlift one can use a reverse grip. This would be useless with dumbells; I don't know about the rest of you but I can't hold a 150 lb dumbell without straps and I will probably never be able to. Also, I don't think they make 300 lb dumbells so for those of you who deadlift 600 lbs plus you will be restricted to the bar.

I know a guy who deadlifts 650 by straddling the bar. Aside from the fact that this forces him to twist his torso which I think we all agree is bad, This would seem to make the lift more like a squat, positioning the weight directly underneath him rather than in front of him. This obviously changes the dynamic of the lift, but in a good way or a bad way?

The dumbbells don't have to stay in front of the legs like a barbell, so dumbbell deadlifts are really DB squats.

That's not true. Barbell Squats and barbell deadlifts both involve the same major muscles (back, legs, hips). Deadlifts add more back involvement and the forearms.

See above.

This is true. Dumbbells can be limiting.

This is not a deadlift. It is called the jefferson lift, I believe.

Looks like you're right

thank google...

I don't know how much you deadlift but holding onto a 150 lb. dumbell isn't all *that* hard. I do suitcase deadlifts, where I pick up the barbell at my side, and I've done more than 150 lbs. this way. And I certainly could manage *more* weight on a dumbell handle because balancing the weight is a big part of the exercise with a suitcase deadlift. Most folks can, with a bit of practice, manage more than 1/2 their standard deadlift in the suitcase deadlift. And I'm a damned skinny runner, for crying out loud! You've got to start doing some farmer's walks!

CJF covered the rest very well, says me.

Steve 'just say 'no' to straps' Freides

FWIW, I just started doing trap bar deadlifts (ala Beyond Brawn recommendation). I noticed it more in my butt and hamstrings and much less in my lower back, as compared to regular deadlifts. I think I like them better than regular ones, and would have to guess they're comparable to DB deads.

Jim

I knew someone would disagree. I believe it was mens health I read this in a few years ago, that a study had showed a massive flood of blood serum testosterone when performing all three of the major lifts, with squat in the lead followed by deadlift and bench press. Mens health went on to conclude that therefore a heavy squat was the secret to a big chest, bc of the testosterone boost. But I couldn't find anything just now from a more reputable source claiming that the squat is a superior lift. But heres an idea: the squat requires alot more balance, because the weight sits high on the body. Therefore it must surely call into play more stabilizing muscles.

but you didnt: you compared it to a standard deadlift and said it was basically really a dumbell squat. But you did not say how it was different from a standard squat - tho I just thought of a way, that being the balance issue I mentioned above.

He called it a deadlift, but I just looked it up and it would seem that you are quite right. Thank you for that valuable piece of information. What an ugly, dangerous lift; I can't believe he pulled that off with 650 lbs, but I watched him do it. Ten reps, no less, and several sets.

So it looks like we have conlcuded again that the deadlift is best and there is no substitute for it.

Especially if it is Lysis

You animal... After DLs today (2x3x365 conv, 2x3x335 sumo) I went to do sidebends. I actually do a suitcase DL then sidebend combo using a 130 DB. Turns out I can't hold onto the 130 after having done DLs (no problem following squats). I then tried the windmills but a 35 was obviously way too little so I ended up just doing saxons (I rotate the midsection exercises and it looks like saxons are up now).

Me too. The gym I go to is like an obstacle course much of the time though. I should really buy some olympic handles and plates to do some of my stuff at home...

This does not change the muscles involved in the lifts. Bio-mechanics drives that. As to hormone changes, I don't know.

Yes, more stabilizers on squats. But deadlift involves more back muscles, i.e. upper. mid and lower traps.

Jeff out ...

Some stuff is just so much easier at home. FYI, one of my favorite midsection exercises is essentially a one-sided farmer's walk without the walk - I just pick up an 88 lb. kettlebell and try to hold onto it for 60 seconds while standing perfectly straight. (I try to imagine I'm holding an equally heavy weight in my other hand.) I find this a brutal exercise for my midsection and it provides some grip work, too, although not as much as a suitcase deadlift.

The suitcase DL and sidebend combo sounds pretty awesome - I think I'd be scared of losing my grip and/or the balance on the barbell while doing the side bend. Saxon sidebends with 35 lbs. are actually pretty tough, too. That's one exercise where a little weight goes a _long_ way. I can do windmills with a 53 lb. kettlebell (well, I could before I cracked my rib, anyway) so, based on your other numbers, I imagine you could do a fair bit more. Interestly, though, I don't feel the windmill is a midsection drill. I feel like it works my lower back towards the outsides much more than my midsection. Maybe I'm confusing some of the oblique muscles that seem to be around towards my back with my spinal erectors, but that's just how it feels to me.

Could you do these with a trap bar?